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I came across a trackback today to Justin Brooke’s site, Site Flip King. First off, it’s not Justin who is off his rocker. Justin made me a member at his paid membership site, Site Flip Academy, and he’s got a lot of stuff that’s pretty valuable within it’s members area. However, the last link on the page, which belongs to this guy, who has another membership site, got my attention. So I checked it out, and if his site is anything like his opening video, this guy is going to cost you more money than he makes you.
First of all, he opens the video with the bold statement “You Need To Sell Your Website”. I sell a TON of websites, but I’ll never tell you that you need to sell your site. He goes on to say that he doesn’t care if the site makes a couple of hundred dollars a month, or a couple of thousand, you need to sell.
“A site that makes a couple of thousand dollars a month can bring in 40k when you sell it.”
Guys, 40k is nice, but it’s not a lot of money. It’s easy to use the methods I teach to create an income that is worth double or triple that each year. Flipping blogs and websites isn’t hard… but it’s not passive either. It takes work on your part, finding deals, fixing up the site, building links, traffic, etc. - and your number one goal as an entrepreneur (which takes precedent over your site flipping) is to create passive income. Nobody wants to work forever, and as much as I enjoy flipping websites… it’s too much work to do until I’m 90. Would you rather be grinding it out for your next $10k sale, or sitting back on a beach in Mexico (which is beautiful by the way) while your network of sites is making you money? I know what I’d prefer. Flipping websites is a means to an end… it’s not the end by itself.
“I’ve personally bought and sold 55 websites within the past 5 years.”
And? Are you awaiting applause? I’ve done that in a good month!
Here’s the deal guys. This guy’s methods will probably make you money. But at what cost? I’m afraid that this guy’s statements, and his “take the money now, forget about the future” approach is a little too narrow-minded. His take the money now approach can be seen in the video, where he offers up the tidbit - “there is no guarantee that your blog will make the same amount in the future”. No? There’s also no guarantee that it’ll sell for the $40k, or even anywhere near it.
Just like blogging, site flipping is a volatile market. It has it’s ups and downs, and the in-betweens. It’s no safer, or more dangerous than long-term blogging as an income model.
My recommendation? Diversify. Any good entrepreneur, which if you are listening is what takes precedent over being a site flipper… doesn’t keep all of his eggs in one basket. Why would you want to count on one income stream, only to take the chance that in a volatile, and ever-changing new world (the internet), something could change and it might not be there? It’s happened before… don’t forget the dot-com bubble! I for one, could care less if one income method stopped working. I have others, and I’d quickly go out and find a way to replace it. Don’t sell yourself short… sell blogs for capital, for vacations, for living expenses… but your long term goals should be to build a network of blogs that are producing passive income. These blogs should take no work on your part… outsource everything! And site flipping gives you the means (money) to do that. Site flipping can give you a good income, but just like anything else, it’s not the way to get rich. $100,000 a year is extremely possible, even laughably easy… but $100k doesn’t last long in todays world. Get rich! Sell sites, slowly build your network… and you’ll have the last laugh.
The method I use is this… For every $10,000 I make, I start one new blog with the intention to keep. This blog is headed down passive income avenue. I’ll build it for a month or two, make sure it’s making enough to pay a writer, and when it reaches the break even point… I’ll let the writer take over, and just supervise from there. I’m now breaking even, yet building an asset that will make me money in the future… and I’ve got my site flipping income to rely on if it ever has a bad month or two. Eventually, this blog will drive past the break even point, they all do… and then I have passive income. Monthly income that I do absolutely nothing to earn. I make over $8k a month in PASSIVE income, and then you add in my site flipping revenue… I’ll retire comfortably by the time I’m 35, if I choose to do so. I’m almost 26 (in June), now.
What about the downfalls of building long-term? NONE! If a blog that I set up for passive income isn’t performing to my expectations… I SELL it! It’s what I do. Then, I’m off to create another to fill it’s place in the network.
“YOU NEED TO SELL YOUR SITE!”
… I don’t think so.
May 28th, 2008 at 6:54 am
Thanks for the heads up. It is great to know that the more I learn from you the more that I know that my model is the correct way to go.
Certainly a combination of income generating websites with building and selling sites is the way to go. I look forward to learning more.
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May 31st, 2008 at 2:13 pm
@ Bryan: That’s the guy from “TheBloggingExperiment”… Max Davis. He bought T.B.E. from Ben Cook for some undisclosed amount of money off of a SitePoint auction back in March if I remember correctly.
I always thought that he offered decent advice. I’d never attend a how to class though, as I’m a firm believer in self teaching (it’s more powerful I think). Any way, if you’ve got any clue to what he paid for T.B.E. I’d be thrilled! Ben, the seller, was like many bloggers, just a few months into it when he wanted to sell for bigger and better reasons… kinda sucks that we can’t watch the complete transition anywhere. Hearing about it is cool and all… but watching it grow every day would simply be awesome!
As far as diversity… you got it. I’m no pro… hell not really even a beginner in website selling, but I’ve got enough business experience to know that diversification helps create stability. Rock on!
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June 3rd, 2008 at 11:50 am
Ben actually lives about 5 minutes from me, and we talk daily. He’s put the money to good use, and he’s up to big things. Max seems like a cool enough guy, I just disagree with putting all of your eggs in one basket.
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June 3rd, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Well when he lets the cat out of the proverbial bag… let us know. Ben’s posts have been getting better, so his new project should be interesting!
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June 4th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
“I’ve personally bought and sold 55 websites within the past 5 years.”
And? Are you awaiting applause? I’ve done that in a good month!
Dude there is a big difference between what you do and what he does. How much websites have you sold for half a million dollars hell how much sites have you sold for 100k each? There is selling houses and then there is selling mansions. Don’t throw dirt on another’s man product because it is not your style. I personally feel blogs are a fad (you never know with the internet) but I am not going to say what you do is dumb or ridiculous. Just not my taste. If you look at real estate how much people believe in rental properties, I take the business concept that works off-line and apply it to online. With all that said I do agree it is nice to have a site or 2 under your wing.
Also great design on your blog man and impressive material here.
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Bryan Clark reply on June 5th, 2008:
You are exactly right. But the issue here isn’t the price of the site. It’s the fact that he seems to want to throw all his eggs into one basket. I haven’t ever received a 100k check for a site, or even close to it. However, let’s take a step back and look a bit deeper. The oldest site I’ve ever sold was 11 months, 3 days old. And I sold it for slightly over 22k.
So, it stands to reason, that given more time I could have sold sites for upwards of 100k, given a couple of years. However, I like to get rid of these things quickly, so my method may vary slightly from his.
And you couldn’t be more wrong about blogs being a fad. In fact, static pages are becoming a thing of the past, my friend. When you start surfing the web, what’s the ratio of blogs to static sites now? I’d guess at least 3 to 1.
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CouldItBe reply on June 5th, 2008:
All your eggs in one basket don’t seem so bad to me when they have a value of half a million dollars and sitting in my savings lol. I do respect what you are saying though, it does not hurt to always have something like a bond sitting there making you money so you don’t have to touch what is in your savings.
Yeah I am probably wrong about blogs I just am beginning to have a hatred for them. So much Make Money Online(MMO)Blogs it is making me sick to my stomach. The reason I like your blog is even if it leads up to you selling material at least you have shown people some type of light and not just what is in your bank acct. Same goes for Piss Biscuit that writing style is one of a kind and he treats it like a blog and not so much of a business venture. So us as readers don’t feel like we are shoving more and more crap down our throat. BlogEx was so great just for the simple fact Ben would throw in that random march madness and still show what is happening with the blog and how he got there.
Bryan I think your blog is great, let me take that back it is a ‘breathe of fresh air’. Unique Design and material that makes me desire to want to learn more. This is something worth subscribing to. Sorry if this turned into a rant and not what our actual discussion was.
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Bryan Clark reply on June 5th, 2008:
Conversation is encouraged here. Rant away! Everyone would love half a million dollars, but the truth is… it’s just not that much cash anymore. It doesn’t go nearly as far as it used to. That said, I’d still love to have it
I think you are missing the point though. Would you rather have 1/2 a million dollars for 5 years worth of work? Or would you rather make 120-150 thousand a year? That’s all I was saying…
June 5th, 2008 at 7:54 am
The age old ‘penny a day doubled for a month’ would suit me down to the ground!! In Pounds sterling preferably.
….and are you saying you make 120-150k per year Bryan
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Bryan Clark reply on June 5th, 2008:
HAHA… I plead the fifth!
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June 5th, 2008 at 8:07 am
Means nothing to me, being English and all that, but for fear of killing your conversation I’ll leave it at that! LMAO
Back on point, I totally agree with CouldItBe MMO blogs are making me sick too. All hail the piss biscuit.
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June 5th, 2008 at 9:21 am
You are right 120 or 150k a year sounds damn better then working hard 5 years for only 500k. But I don’t think his system is based around working hard for 5 years. Just build it or buy it and be sure to fix it. Then resell it not hold onto it. But you know this all is opinion I would not really know what the course teaches.
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Bryan Clark reply on June 5th, 2008:
I don’t know what his system is based on. I would have signed up to see if I could learn anything, but his video turned me off of his system completely. I do know that the websites he sold weren’t short term flips like I do… he had them a while.
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Max reply on June 17th, 2008:
Hey guys, figured I’d step in and clarify here…
I’ve never owned a site more than 16 months either. Bryan, by selling your site after owning it for less than 12 months, you are losing so much more money in taxes - assuming you pay taxes on the sale of websites
If you sell a site after owning it more than a year, you only get taxed at capital gains (15%) vs regular income (33%). The site I sold for $575,000, I held for 15 months and only had to pay 15% tax on that sale. Saved me about $103,000 in taxes by doing this. If I sold that site after 11 months, I would have paid $189k to the gov’t vs about $88k. That’s the main reason why I do what I do. I could never work on one site for 5 years with my ADD.
I agree, $500k isn’t that much money anymore, but to most people it can be a life changing amount of money…
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June 5th, 2008 at 10:35 am
I’ll go back to my “real Estate” example. I’ve got friends who do a few million dollars worth a year. Nothing major, but a nice little income. Besides their incomes, they operate on two TOTALLY different systems. One friend “Flips” the other “Holds”. There are plenty of benefits to both.
Flipping gives you a short term investment designed to bring in large sums of cash quickly. However, taxes can be a real pain in the ass.
Holding or land lording in a lot of cases, is designed for slower. long term return. Taxes aren’t the issue here, its dealing with tenants and the destruction that they tend to cause.
Flipping allows you to leverage cash, holding allows you to leverage the property without needing as much cash. All in all the goal is one in the same. Make money!
Bryan’s focus here is on “Flipping” websites, where Max’s is “Holding”. Is one wrong over the other, no way. Can someone have a preferred method of making their investments… sure, to each their own. But no one is wrong.
I’ve become a VERY big fan of Bryan’s since learning the potential of the buying and selling market of online real estate… regardless of how the money is invested it’s an interesting concept and for me, a real eye opener.
I personally prefer to invest in little larger investments, but frankly, there is something really interesting about spending 25.00 bucks on something and using it for what it’s worth. If Bryan ever opened up a partnership opportunity, I’d be the first on the list if for nothing else but to see a great experiment in a growing market.
Blogs: Yep I feel you there! I try really hard to keep it far away from the Shoemoney, Chow, Vic, and others like them. The MMO market is flush with douche bags hustling crap to earn a quick buck. What ever happened to good ol honest hard work and information of real value.
If I buy something, and I like it, I’ll share it. If it sucks, you’ll know it, no matter what the affiliate pay out on it is. I know that his would not be the most LUCRATIVE move on my part, but I don’t need money… I need visitors, readers, subscribers, followers, great comments and fans! You guys are the fuel for my fire… not click able links. I WANT organic, genuine visitors. Money will come in time… and as Bryan has said… a successful blog opens avenues of income that maybe would have never thought about. In due time, the money will come. Until then, I’ll keep building the PB brand!
@ AP: LMAO I can see the olive branch wreath around my head now! LOL
great post Bryan! Excellent comments “CoulditBe”!
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Bryan Clark reply on June 5th, 2008:
While PB’s comment was right on the money, don’t get me confused with someone that’s just a flipper. I use flipping for cash flow to fuel other online investments. I’m all for the buy and hold method, I was just using this as an example in defense to CooulditBe’s comment, asking how many blogs I’ve sold for half a million… none! And to be honest, when I do sell a blog or website for half a million, it will be when I’m nearing retirement and liquidating assets for that cushy life in the tropics!
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CouldItBe reply on June 5th, 2008:
When I look at it from your perspective you look at reaching your long term goal at a faster pace. You keep investing with the money that you make from investments and continue to make them work for you. I am truly impressed… I will gracefully bow out.
I need somebody like you for a mentor that plays every part of the field. I will eventually get there just going to keep at it.
@ PB: This is why I am addicted to your blog because you are all about the organic, the people that want to be there. When I get around to starting my blog I just hope I can make it of the same qualities of ‘SiteFlipU’ and ‘PissBiscuit’
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June 7th, 2008 at 12:53 am
Wow Bryan! Pretty spiffy site here! Up for another TGI Friday’s sometime???
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Bryan Clark reply on June 7th, 2008:
You’re alive? I’ve been trying to contact you for, ummm… roughly 17 years or so. Yes I’m up for some TGI Fridays. Mojito’s on me! Send me an email with your new email address.. I guess you stopped using the old one. bryanclark 82 at gmail dot com
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August 11th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
I’d have to say I’d much rather have 10k today or 20K or 100K then 5-10 years from now Max has put together an incredible package and the
membership he has really rocks
If I had his stuff last year it would have saved me at least ten grand
out of my pocket.
Now I want to make easy money just like any one else does but adding content, hiring writers, supervising people sounds to much like work
I’d rather build a site show six months income and sell it for cash now
let someone else supervise manage and direct.
I have a hard enough time getting myself motivated most days let alone
other people
Kenny Michaels
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